2013
2013.09
I used to play a lot of versus AI games on the "Startion" map, but it hasn't been updated, so its not much fun anymore. Trying to find another map like it through Blizzard's interface is a nightmare. The following are some experiments in versus AI. My goal is a long game, one that doesn't have a quickly decided winner, so you have time to build up a good defense and advanced units, then stomp your enemies. This means I mostly defend and try to expand whenever it seems safe.
me Terran 100% + 3 AI Terran Hard 100% vs. 4 AI Zerg Hard 100% on Blizzard's "Lava Flow" (8)
not bad, game lasted a while, got to build out full army, never really challenged at home, allies took most of the punishment. need to expand quickly or AI grabs all the good nearby spots.
So now I'm 'gathering XP', even while playing solo, and there are achievements too. I guess this is interesting enough that I'll stick to mainstream Starcraft, and not play weird custom maps that have to load older versions of the Starcraft engine. So, from the start screen:
Matchmaking -> Versus AI, Select Mode (1vAI), Select Race (Terran), Play
turns out that was a medium game. kind of boring, but gives me the practice to learn building units and defending. the AI hardly bothered, and could be wiped out whenever I felt like it.
2013.10
(8) Atlas Station, me Terran with 3 Medium Terran (Any Build, 100%) vs 4 Hard Zerg (Any Build, 100%)
Turtle and fast expansion. One ally after another falls until only I'm left. War of attrition. When resistance ebbs I can take out their bases. Interesting start, boring end.
OK, how about the same thing, just turn the AI up a little.
(8) Atlas Station, me Terran with 3 Hard Terran vs 4 Harder Zerg
wow, got wiped fast. let's boost the terran to equal zerg.
(8) Atlas Station, me Terran with 3 Harder Terran vs 4 Harder Zerg
some time later - can't recall what happened. i think it went bad.
trying the above again.
ok game, but never really felt threatened. turn it up?
again.
OK, this seems consistent enough. let's up it.
(8) Atlas Station, T + 3 T Very Hard vs 4 Zerg Very Hard
that was weird, the enemy barely attacked, even less than in easier difficulty games. i thought for while that they were holding back so they could go to air, but no, nothing. i even had the breathing room to take a third expansion. that was so weird i have to try this again.
(8) Atlas Station, T + 3 T Very Hard vs 4 Zerg Very Hard
Looks like another easy game, I paused for an hour and came back, to find "You were dropped!". WTF, Blizzard, I'm playing a solo game.
(8) Atlas Station, T + 3 T Elite vs 4 Zerg Elite
Another easy game. But I think it has more to do with the Terrans ramping up faster than the Zerg. Let's try something a little different.
(8) Atlas Station, T + 3 Protoss Very Hard vs 4 Zerg Very Hard
a better match, but still the Zerg went down fairly quickly. its not that i've gotten so much better, because it doesn't explain why my allies are mopping up the enemy consistently, and my defenses are barely scratched. the first few games i watched my allies fall one by one, and i had to focus on defense until the enemy just ran out of money. maybe its time to switch maps.
I picked "Atlas Station" because in "Custom Games", that was the "Top Played" 8 player map. Scrolling further down the last, the next top played 8 player map is Celestial Bastion.
(8) Celestial Bastion, T + 3 T very hard VS 4 Z very hard
Woah, first thing that needs doing is cranking the game down from Faster speed to Normal.
I don't like this map at all, everybody is behind one chokepoint, and I'm right near the front door. It also doesn't look like there's any easy ways to expand. Don't think I'll play this one again, but I'll see it through. Why is this in top played? I guess if you have human allies, you can coordinate guarding the choke, but with AI, no can do.
Oh, its even worse, there's a back door to the base. Skipping this map.
Megaton - too small, too much shared base.
(8) Volcanic Ridge v1.0, T + 3 T very hard VS 4 Z very hard
oh, shared base. forget that. quit and search for next map.
(8) Sky Harvester v1.0, T + 3 T very hard VS 4 Z very hard
Looks like a neat map, but unfortunately there are two outcomes when you are placed in the map: shared base in the front, or a private base in the back. Going to re-roll until I get a back seat.
Got a rear base, got killed. Next two matches I was out front. Not worth pursuing.
(8) Abyss v1.2, T vs Z, very hard
nice, but too small of a map to be interesting
Deadlock Ridge, shared bases, skip.
Forbidden Planet, too small.
(8) Lava Flow, v1.2, T vs Z, very hard
nice map, its big enough for a long game, and has some interesting twists, like the resource islands.
add to bookmarks.
(8) Lava Flow, v1.2, P + 3T vs Z, very hard
easy, even though i was out front. good map, but let's see what else is out there.
too many maps have you too close to a teammate, with shared defenses. i also want multiple expansions, especially rich expansions, and even better expansions that are hard to get to.
(8) Primordial Grave, 4T vs 4Z, very hard
didn't do good here. sour grapes, don't much like the map.
(8) Sand Canyon v1.3, 4T vs 4Z, very hard
well, got wiped, but still interesting
trying again...
Once again, my allies die quickly to early raids. Allies seem smarter on some maps than others.
(8) Toxic Slums, v1.2, 4T vs 4Z, very hard
again, allies couldn't hold. nice map, but too short.
(8) Zenith, v1.4
ok, one last blizzard map to try.
made some mistakes and lost (experimenting with Thors). i like this map, its got an interesting layout, and some room for expansion, but i like a larger map.
Tired of losing for so long, going back to Lava Flow and Atlas Station.
(8) Lava Flow, v1.2, T vs Z, very hard
I lost twice in a row. I got a forward base and got triple-teamed, I got a rear base and did OK, but my allies died. I was able to fly to the resource island both times, and extend the game, but I still didn't win. And yet it was fun anyway. This map is a keeper. Let's try Atlas Station again.
(8) Atlas Station, T+3T vh versus 4Z vh
Another long game of attrition
2013.11
(8) Lava Flow 15k v3.1 by Birdman, T+3T vh versus 4 Z vh
Trying a money variation of Lava Flow - holy cow, you start with 15,000 of each resource! I'll play this out, but this is kind of pointless.
Not interesting, unbookmarked.
Did I miss any other 8 player maps? Checking...
(8) Writhing Morass v1.0, T+3T vh versus 4 Z vh
Not bad, but lacks secret expansions
(8) Retribution LE v1.0, T+3T vh versus 4 Z vh
No good expansions, no good defense, no prospect of a long game, skip.
(8) Primordial Grave, T+3T vh versus 4 Z vh
Shared ramp? Let's see.
2018
2018.12.29
So I'm trying this again, after a long break. It's hard to get a good sandcastle versus the tide game going, but if I get close its like life's fast forward button. Maybe I shouldn't spend too much time here.
Custom -> Melee
Let's start with a classic map, Lava Flow (8), and see what AI level works best.
T + 1P h versus 4Z medium
not difficult but there are just too many zerg units on the map, overwhelmed
2018.12.29
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P vh versus 3Z medium
that was pretty good, but i never really felt in danger.
I am gaining new respect for the Battleship. I've been struggling to come up with what my mid to late offensive unit should be, and the warp ability really gives a good way to keep an expensive unit alive while trying to push forward. I still miss a fleet of BS, healing Ravens, and Vikings for anti-air, but hit and run BS by itself works quite well with less micro.
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P vh versus 4Z medium
that was a little tougher, but i still never felt much danger.
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P vh versus 3Z hard
better, but still need to up the enemy
Sometimes I end up in a forward position, and have to fall back. At this easy a level I can afford to, but maybe not so easy later.
I'm still not expanding fast enough. It's getting to late game and I haven't even built out my supply sometimes.
2018.12.30
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P vh versus 4Z hard
Overwhelmed at ~30 minutes. I feel like I could have tightened that up, gone to air sooner, helped ally sooner. My ally got the forward position and got continually harassed, and never really got to grow. I guess its better if I'm the one who has to fall back.
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P vh versus 4Z hard
Trying same again. By the 30 minute mark not yet overwhelmed but I know I can't make it to air, fall within 10 minutes. Build order still not right, still can't get enough mineral fast enough.
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P vh versus 4Z hard
Repeat. That was OK, some danger in the beginning, but it turned positive fairly early. I think the key was expanding hard, and spending it fast, more on goods than upgrades.
2019
2019.01.01
Let's try that again before moving forward.
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P vh versus 4Z hard
I had a forward base and had to fall back. Even though I fell back late I recovered fairly well but my ally got overrun by ~17m. Let's try making him tougher, and falling back sooner than 7m next time I'm forward.
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P Elite versus 4Z Hard
nice, got good placement and expanded fast, and ally did OK, but there still seems to be something a little random about this.
2019.01.02
another of same
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P Elite versus 4Z Hard
even though i was in a forward position and had to fall back, it was still pretty easy, and i didn't even pursue my build order as hard as i could. next time increase to Harder
2019.01.03
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P Elite versus 3Z Harder
too easy. its almost as if i set it to medium instead of harder.
2019.01.04
increase the enemy quantity
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P Elite versus 4Z Harder
ally overrun. i got hit hard a few times rebuilt, felt like i was on track, but i wasn't ready to help neighbor yet.
repeat.
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P Elite versus 4Z Harder
Ally got forward position, I was able to help better but he still fell. I held out for a while, was getting slowly ground down decided to bail.
let's try two allies, but weaker. i'll probably have to scurry to grab expansion points faster, but at least i'll still have the secret island expansion.
Lava Flow (8) T + 2P Very Hard versus 4Z Harder
even though i had to fall back still too easy
Lava Flow (8) T + 2P Very Hard versus 3Z Very Hard
too easy, though i was in the rear.
2019.01.05
let's see where this goes
Lava Flow (8) T + 2P Very Hard versus 2Z Elite
this was good, but i had the advantage of starting behind both allies. they both got neutralized but kept the enemy busy for me. i ended up in a war of attrition, trying to preserve my last BC against corruptors.
while doing this i had mostly mineral to work with, so i built out a squad of hellions to gain awareness of the map and block out enemy scouts. i haven't really been thinking about how hellions and hellbats are the same thing - can hellbats go in a bunker? it would be cool to have firebat bunkers again.
2019.01.06
Lava Flow (8) T + 2P Very Hard versus 2Z Elite
sadly, hellbats don't go in bunkers.
an easy round, even though i started forward and had to move back.
2019.01.08
I'll repeat even though after two successive wins I should probably escalate. I find it takes a few rounds to get in the mental space of having a build order and timing; its like playing an instrument. So, warming up.
Lava Flow (8) T + 2P Very Hard versus 2Z Elite
I had to fall back and I got double teamed, but I stayed in the game because allies could send some units to distract the attackers. By the time I got back on track and was about to go air my allies mopped up the opposition.
Lava Flow (8) T + 2P Elite versus 3Z Elite
I had to fall back but it was OK. An ally got taken out early, and the other followed soon after. No point in continuing.
Lava Flow (8) T + 3P Elite versus 3Z Elite
Pulled the best starting position (in the rear, next to the resource island), never got attacked, but I still couldn't catch up to my allies wiping out the enemy. Next time try 4Z.
2019.01.10
Trying above. I expect that expansion will be difficult, and if you get triple teamed early nothing can save you.
Lava Flow (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
Out of the 4 of us, I get the forward position. I try to overexpand and then fall back to the island to go air, but I started too late to help.
again
Lava Flow (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
that was a nice long game, lots of drama as allies expanded, attacked, fell back, were taken out one by one, as i built up a big BC fleet. this time i made sure to build up a good amount of valkyries to keep the corrupters from rapidly taking out the BC. i had my entire front door knocked out, with not a single marine or tank or anything left. it seems like a good time to lift off whatever buildings could fly and retreat to the island. as fun as it was, the game was essentially over now, as the map was mostly mined. still, this was one of the better close games i've had.
2019.01.11
close one, so try it again
Lava Flow (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
good one. i felt pushed a few times, and was able to help allies a few times. substantial, but not overly long.
i can see the end for Lava Flow, let's try something different.
Lava Flow (8) P + 2T Elite versus 4Z Harder
Allies strong enough to play without me as I learn the units; I was still able to participate with air in the mid game.
Too scattershot last time, try to focus on ground.
Lava Flow (8) P + 2T Elite versus 4Z Harder
I don't really enjoy playing Protoss. Most of the time I feel like I'm just throwing units away, not really optimizing who lives and who dies.
Lava Flow (8) Z + 2T Elite versus 4P Harder
Zerg is much easier, everyone is expendable, and I have no problem ordering suicide runs, because that's the Zerg way. With Terran and Protoss, I spend way too much time roleplaying trying to save lives. It's optimal with the Terrans, who have bunkers and tactical jump, to hit the enemy hard yet with a high survival rate.
Atlas Station (8) T + 2P Very Hard versus 4Z Hard
I learned that I've been taking my 3-5 expansions for granted with the island expansion on Lava Flow. on an island i don't have to worry as much about attack, but out in the open, i need some kind of defense even if i want to retreat on attack.
2019.01.13
Something about Atlas Station is not fun, it might be too boxy and linear. I appreciate the indirectness of Lava Flow more, and especially those corner islands.
repeat
Atlas Station (8) T + 2P Very Hard versus 4Z Hard
too easy
Atlas Station (8) T + 2P Very Hard versus 4Z Very Hard
not enough defense
again
Atlas Station (8) T + 2P Very Hard versus 4Z Very Hard
that's better
2019.01.14
Trying "Lava Flow_2" by Kingbattle. Looks like the regular map, but the islands have yellow (high yield) minerals?
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
The enemy never seems to run out of steam, unlike the regular Lava Flow, making it quite a different game. On the regular resource map all you have to do is survive a few waves, then go out and clean up. I think more offense and bottling up of the enemy will be needed just to survive. It makes you a little more proactive, and I like it.
2019.01.15
Let's dial it back a little and see what that looks like.
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 2P Elite versus 4Z Very Hard
Reasonably long game - neither side died too quickly. You never really run out of resources, if anything you expand so the enemy can not.
2019.01.15
Let's see if we've got this, repeat.
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 2P Elite versus 4Z Very Hard
I pull the perfect position, right next to the resource island. This map does something different to the forward position, it blocks its ramp with rocks. I have noticed for the Protoss this delays their expansion, but for a Terran it would probably be an advantage (you can just build and float a command center down). Now I look forward to getting the forward position.
I get quad-teamed early. Not very interesting. Maybe next time I should help liberate my trapped team mate?
Next try, I am forward. Here we go.
Long game, interesting, but I don't win. One of my allies just seemed to give up, and I can't handle all the enemy attention.
2019.01.18
Repeating the current baseline
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 2P Elite versus 4Z Very Hard
Got the forward base, couldn't decide when to bail out and where to go. Team mates both got wiped early. Let's try going back to 3 allies.
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Very Hard
Got good placement (11 o'clock, next to island), never really felt threatened, neither did allies, by 30 min it was decided in our favor. The enemy was doing well and seeming to improve but seemed to just stop building enough forces.
This is probably too much, but let's try
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
Forward, this time I held it. Never felt threatened, over by 40 min.
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 2P Elite versus 3Z Elite
One ally behind rock, another got double teamed, could not save, quit.
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 2P Elite versus 3Z Elite
same shitty double team.
2019.01.21
I feel out of practice; plain vanilla Lava Flow.
Lava Flow (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
Allies got taken out one by one, and they barely helped each other (they usually do).
Again
Lava Flow (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
Not bad, decent length game, but by the time I get my fleet built out the enemy has run out of resources. Back to the resource rich version.
2019.01.24
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
Long drawn out loss as enemies failed one by one. At least it was fun for most of it. Interesting because it is hard to say where the point of no return was. One of my better defeats.
2019.01.25
Again:
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
Allies wiped early.
Again, let's see if this helps:
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 3P Cheater1 versus 4Z Elite
Nice start but a little too easy, over in ~30 min. I was attacked early which was fun, but the enemy seemed to just give up, one didn't even build up.
I am experimenting more with Liberators, and a combo of Libs and Valkyries make an interesting but light harassment team, and can later be used to guard BC (not that I even got to build any this round).
Back to:
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
Allies fell one by one. I should quit sooner when I see this happening.
Again:
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
Better, a slightly longer game, a little more balanced.
Instead of going to BC I built more Banshees and Valkyries. They are a bit faster and cheaper, maybe this is the way to go in a resource rich map, instead of the slow and conservative BC of the resource poor maps.
Again:
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
(8) Lava Flow, v1.2, P + 3T vs Z, very hard
easy, even though i was out front. good map, but let's see what else is out there.
too many maps have you too close to a teammate, with shared defenses. i also want multiple expansions, especially rich expansions, and even better expansions that are hard to get to.
(8) Primordial Grave, 4T vs 4Z, very hard
didn't do good here. sour grapes, don't much like the map.
(8) Sand Canyon v1.3, 4T vs 4Z, very hard
well, got wiped, but still interesting
trying again...
Once again, my allies die quickly to early raids. Allies seem smarter on some maps than others.
(8) Toxic Slums, v1.2, 4T vs 4Z, very hard
again, allies couldn't hold. nice map, but too short.
(8) Zenith, v1.4
ok, one last blizzard map to try.
made some mistakes and lost (experimenting with Thors). i like this map, its got an interesting layout, and some room for expansion, but i like a larger map.
Tired of losing for so long, going back to Lava Flow and Atlas Station.
(8) Lava Flow, v1.2, T vs Z, very hard
I lost twice in a row. I got a forward base and got triple-teamed, I got a rear base and did OK, but my allies died. I was able to fly to the resource island both times, and extend the game, but I still didn't win. And yet it was fun anyway. This map is a keeper. Let's try Atlas Station again.
(8) Atlas Station, T+3T vh versus 4Z vh
Another long game of attrition
2013.11
(8) Lava Flow 15k v3.1 by Birdman, T+3T vh versus 4 Z vh
Trying a money variation of Lava Flow - holy cow, you start with 15,000 of each resource! I'll play this out, but this is kind of pointless.
Not interesting, unbookmarked.
Did I miss any other 8 player maps? Checking...
(8) Writhing Morass v1.0, T+3T vh versus 4 Z vh
Not bad, but lacks secret expansions
(8) Retribution LE v1.0, T+3T vh versus 4 Z vh
No good expansions, no good defense, no prospect of a long game, skip.
(8) Primordial Grave, T+3T vh versus 4 Z vh
Shared ramp? Let's see.
2018
2018.12.29
So I'm trying this again, after a long break. It's hard to get a good sandcastle versus the tide game going, but if I get close its like life's fast forward button. Maybe I shouldn't spend too much time here.
Custom -> Melee
Let's start with a classic map, Lava Flow (8), and see what AI level works best.
T + 1P h versus 4Z medium
not difficult but there are just too many zerg units on the map, overwhelmed
2018.12.29
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P vh versus 3Z medium
that was pretty good, but i never really felt in danger.
I am gaining new respect for the Battleship. I've been struggling to come up with what my mid to late offensive unit should be, and the warp ability really gives a good way to keep an expensive unit alive while trying to push forward. I still miss a fleet of BS, healing Ravens, and Vikings for anti-air, but hit and run BS by itself works quite well with less micro.
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P vh versus 4Z medium
that was a little tougher, but i still never felt much danger.
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P vh versus 3Z hard
better, but still need to up the enemy
Sometimes I end up in a forward position, and have to fall back. At this easy a level I can afford to, but maybe not so easy later.
I'm still not expanding fast enough. It's getting to late game and I haven't even built out my supply sometimes.
2018.12.30
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P vh versus 4Z hard
Overwhelmed at ~30 minutes. I feel like I could have tightened that up, gone to air sooner, helped ally sooner. My ally got the forward position and got continually harassed, and never really got to grow. I guess its better if I'm the one who has to fall back.
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P vh versus 4Z hard
Trying same again. By the 30 minute mark not yet overwhelmed but I know I can't make it to air, fall within 10 minutes. Build order still not right, still can't get enough mineral fast enough.
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P vh versus 4Z hard
Repeat. That was OK, some danger in the beginning, but it turned positive fairly early. I think the key was expanding hard, and spending it fast, more on goods than upgrades.
2019
2019.01.01
Let's try that again before moving forward.
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P vh versus 4Z hard
I had a forward base and had to fall back. Even though I fell back late I recovered fairly well but my ally got overrun by ~17m. Let's try making him tougher, and falling back sooner than 7m next time I'm forward.
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P Elite versus 4Z Hard
nice, got good placement and expanded fast, and ally did OK, but there still seems to be something a little random about this.
2019.01.02
another of same
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P Elite versus 4Z Hard
even though i was in a forward position and had to fall back, it was still pretty easy, and i didn't even pursue my build order as hard as i could. next time increase to Harder
2019.01.03
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P Elite versus 3Z Harder
too easy. its almost as if i set it to medium instead of harder.
2019.01.04
increase the enemy quantity
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P Elite versus 4Z Harder
ally overrun. i got hit hard a few times rebuilt, felt like i was on track, but i wasn't ready to help neighbor yet.
repeat.
Lava Flow (8) T + 1P Elite versus 4Z Harder
Ally got forward position, I was able to help better but he still fell. I held out for a while, was getting slowly ground down decided to bail.
let's try two allies, but weaker. i'll probably have to scurry to grab expansion points faster, but at least i'll still have the secret island expansion.
Lava Flow (8) T + 2P Very Hard versus 4Z Harder
even though i had to fall back still too easy
Lava Flow (8) T + 2P Very Hard versus 3Z Very Hard
too easy, though i was in the rear.
2019.01.05
let's see where this goes
Lava Flow (8) T + 2P Very Hard versus 2Z Elite
this was good, but i had the advantage of starting behind both allies. they both got neutralized but kept the enemy busy for me. i ended up in a war of attrition, trying to preserve my last BC against corruptors.
while doing this i had mostly mineral to work with, so i built out a squad of hellions to gain awareness of the map and block out enemy scouts. i haven't really been thinking about how hellions and hellbats are the same thing - can hellbats go in a bunker? it would be cool to have firebat bunkers again.
2019.01.06
Lava Flow (8) T + 2P Very Hard versus 2Z Elite
sadly, hellbats don't go in bunkers.
an easy round, even though i started forward and had to move back.
2019.01.08
I'll repeat even though after two successive wins I should probably escalate. I find it takes a few rounds to get in the mental space of having a build order and timing; its like playing an instrument. So, warming up.
Lava Flow (8) T + 2P Very Hard versus 2Z Elite
I had to fall back and I got double teamed, but I stayed in the game because allies could send some units to distract the attackers. By the time I got back on track and was about to go air my allies mopped up the opposition.
Lava Flow (8) T + 2P Elite versus 3Z Elite
I had to fall back but it was OK. An ally got taken out early, and the other followed soon after. No point in continuing.
Lava Flow (8) T + 3P Elite versus 3Z Elite
Pulled the best starting position (in the rear, next to the resource island), never got attacked, but I still couldn't catch up to my allies wiping out the enemy. Next time try 4Z.
2019.01.10
Trying above. I expect that expansion will be difficult, and if you get triple teamed early nothing can save you.
Lava Flow (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
Out of the 4 of us, I get the forward position. I try to overexpand and then fall back to the island to go air, but I started too late to help.
again
Lava Flow (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
that was a nice long game, lots of drama as allies expanded, attacked, fell back, were taken out one by one, as i built up a big BC fleet. this time i made sure to build up a good amount of valkyries to keep the corrupters from rapidly taking out the BC. i had my entire front door knocked out, with not a single marine or tank or anything left. it seems like a good time to lift off whatever buildings could fly and retreat to the island. as fun as it was, the game was essentially over now, as the map was mostly mined. still, this was one of the better close games i've had.
2019.01.11
close one, so try it again
Lava Flow (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
good one. i felt pushed a few times, and was able to help allies a few times. substantial, but not overly long.
i can see the end for Lava Flow, let's try something different.
Lava Flow (8) P + 2T Elite versus 4Z Harder
Allies strong enough to play without me as I learn the units; I was still able to participate with air in the mid game.
Too scattershot last time, try to focus on ground.
Lava Flow (8) P + 2T Elite versus 4Z Harder
I don't really enjoy playing Protoss. Most of the time I feel like I'm just throwing units away, not really optimizing who lives and who dies.
Lava Flow (8) Z + 2T Elite versus 4P Harder
Zerg is much easier, everyone is expendable, and I have no problem ordering suicide runs, because that's the Zerg way. With Terran and Protoss, I spend way too much time roleplaying trying to save lives. It's optimal with the Terrans, who have bunkers and tactical jump, to hit the enemy hard yet with a high survival rate.
Atlas Station (8) T + 2P Very Hard versus 4Z Hard
I learned that I've been taking my 3-5 expansions for granted with the island expansion on Lava Flow. on an island i don't have to worry as much about attack, but out in the open, i need some kind of defense even if i want to retreat on attack.
2019.01.13
Something about Atlas Station is not fun, it might be too boxy and linear. I appreciate the indirectness of Lava Flow more, and especially those corner islands.
repeat
Atlas Station (8) T + 2P Very Hard versus 4Z Hard
too easy
Atlas Station (8) T + 2P Very Hard versus 4Z Very Hard
not enough defense
again
Atlas Station (8) T + 2P Very Hard versus 4Z Very Hard
that's better
2019.01.14
Trying "Lava Flow_2" by Kingbattle. Looks like the regular map, but the islands have yellow (high yield) minerals?
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
The enemy never seems to run out of steam, unlike the regular Lava Flow, making it quite a different game. On the regular resource map all you have to do is survive a few waves, then go out and clean up. I think more offense and bottling up of the enemy will be needed just to survive. It makes you a little more proactive, and I like it.
2019.01.15
Let's dial it back a little and see what that looks like.
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 2P Elite versus 4Z Very Hard
Reasonably long game - neither side died too quickly. You never really run out of resources, if anything you expand so the enemy can not.
2019.01.15
Let's see if we've got this, repeat.
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 2P Elite versus 4Z Very Hard
I pull the perfect position, right next to the resource island. This map does something different to the forward position, it blocks its ramp with rocks. I have noticed for the Protoss this delays their expansion, but for a Terran it would probably be an advantage (you can just build and float a command center down). Now I look forward to getting the forward position.
I get quad-teamed early. Not very interesting. Maybe next time I should help liberate my trapped team mate?
Next try, I am forward. Here we go.
Long game, interesting, but I don't win. One of my allies just seemed to give up, and I can't handle all the enemy attention.
2019.01.18
Repeating the current baseline
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 2P Elite versus 4Z Very Hard
Got the forward base, couldn't decide when to bail out and where to go. Team mates both got wiped early. Let's try going back to 3 allies.
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Very Hard
Got good placement (11 o'clock, next to island), never really felt threatened, neither did allies, by 30 min it was decided in our favor. The enemy was doing well and seeming to improve but seemed to just stop building enough forces.
This is probably too much, but let's try
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
Forward, this time I held it. Never felt threatened, over by 40 min.
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 2P Elite versus 3Z Elite
One ally behind rock, another got double teamed, could not save, quit.
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 2P Elite versus 3Z Elite
same shitty double team.
2019.01.21
I feel out of practice; plain vanilla Lava Flow.
Lava Flow (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
Allies got taken out one by one, and they barely helped each other (they usually do).
Again
Lava Flow (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
Not bad, decent length game, but by the time I get my fleet built out the enemy has run out of resources. Back to the resource rich version.
2019.01.24
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
Long drawn out loss as enemies failed one by one. At least it was fun for most of it. Interesting because it is hard to say where the point of no return was. One of my better defeats.
2019.01.25
Again:
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
Allies wiped early.
Again, let's see if this helps:
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 3P Cheater1 versus 4Z Elite
Nice start but a little too easy, over in ~30 min. I was attacked early which was fun, but the enemy seemed to just give up, one didn't even build up.
I am experimenting more with Liberators, and a combo of Libs and Valkyries make an interesting but light harassment team, and can later be used to guard BC (not that I even got to build any this round).
Back to:
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
Allies fell one by one. I should quit sooner when I see this happening.
Again:
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
Better, a slightly longer game, a little more balanced.
Instead of going to BC I built more Banshees and Valkyries. They are a bit faster and cheaper, maybe this is the way to go in a resource rich map, instead of the slow and conservative BC of the resource poor maps.
Again:
Lava Flow_2 (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
I got the forward base and it was not bad, it was good actually. Only problem was locked in and couldn't help allies quickly. Lost one. Expanded aggressively, lift off when attacked. Got to air, pushed back. It was a good game even though we lost.
2019.02.01
I haven't even been recording individual games the past few days, just playing either Lava Flow regular or rich in the usual configuration. As always, I'm trying to get that perfect build order which lets me easily defend my base, expand as far as I want, help my allies, and defeat the enemy, all at the right times. That's the goal, the reality is getting triple teamed, overexpanding but not building up fast enough, allies getting wiped, or sitting bored in my base because my team mates have wiped the enemy and I haven't even had a single good fight.
Lava Flow may not be the perfect map, but its a good clean background to paint on. Being able to hold many variables constant lets you play around and experiment. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to build a strong front door of marines and marauders, bunkers and depots, and tanks and hellions that will repel attackers but not take up too much supply in mid to late game. I've been reluctant to overbuild tanks because they are useless for my attack style, so I've been thinking of building more Liberators to hold the ramp, and then repurposing them on the fly to help air defend the base or go out and raid as needed.
Another game of Lava Flow_2 and the enemy failed to rise. Getting some good practice with Liberator and Valkyrie team.
Trying something different:
Last Remnant (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Very Hard
Good reminder that terrans are mobile and versatile. This map doesn't have as clearly defined choke points, and a central shared ramp. Even without bunkers I was able to hold the door with a ball of mixed types.
Even more different:
Lava Flow (8) T + 3T Very Hard versus 4Z Very Hard
Allies failed.
Again, allies fail, but a good fight.
How about a win:
Lava Flow (8) T + 3T Elite versus 4Z Very Hard
2019.02.02
"3 computers one island and two players" (5, player made) T+P Elite vs 3Z Elite
I grossly underestimate how much time I had. I spent so much time on economy and base building and we were overrun within 15 minutes. I need a much better front door, and with a shared front ramp my team mate is worse than no help, he actively breaks down the rock barrier.
Again.
I'm liking this map. I finally got to test what's its like to try and hold a ramp with mostly Liberators and its quite fun. Of course there are siege tanks and marines and Valks, but the Libs are doing the bulk of the forward work getting the numbers of the invading hordes down before they get too close. I'm really starting to not like tanks as they tend to blow up my forward obstacles and defenders (depots and hellions).
There are downsides to this map, it makes the turtle strategy take a long time, like two hours long before everyone finally runs out of gas. It might be a little more interesting if there was some expansion and expansion denial, but I also don't have to think about the economy fairly quickly. The single shared ramp is annoying while my ally is clogging it, but likewise when I'm getting pushed back because I decided to experiment on defense, he's there to soak up the enemy spillover.
It's not a very fun map, but its useful to setup a long term laboratory where I can experiment with different types of defenders and see what they can do. And there's no way I can do this for 2 hours straight so I need more time than that to take breaks and do other things, so it doesn't make for a casual session. It's a nice thing to add to the repertoire, as Lava Flow 1 and 2 are now the short and medium game.
2019.02.07
Playing some Lava Flow and got overrun because I was too busy expanding and not paying enough attention to my front door. I think I need a more defined build order that I shouldn't stray too far from. Here's an outline, not too specific:
Starting with minerals, I make two Barracks, a wall of 3-4 depots, and at least 3 bunkers with 4 marines each.
As the gas starts to come in, engineering and bunker upgrade, add a marauder to each bunker.
Build 2 Factories then 4 tanks as fast as the gas comes in.
Build 2 Starport then 1-2 shuttles, then at least 6 Liberators, then at least 6 Valkyrie.
I used to build more tanks if I was getting a lot of enemy attention, but that could easily end up in not enough tanks fast enough, or too many tanks sitting around doing nothing as the game goes on. I think the Libs can do early base defense, and help the Valks with anti-air in late game.
2019.02.19
Been playing Lava Flow regular resources every few days. I usually don't feel the two hour time commitment that the rich map can require.
It is frustrating how seemingly random the games go. Sometimes a team mate gets taken out very early and its a downward spiral from there. I'm trying to be more reactive to defending allies, because if I don't I'll just be restarting soon anyway.
2019.02.20
2019.02.27
Out of practice.
Lava Flow (8) T + 3P Elite versus 4Z Elite
2019.03.25
Still playing the usual (as above). At some point I was bored enough to try out units I never use, and learned to love the firebat/fire vulture combo. Is there any use for Ghosts in my defensive play style? If I find I am losing, can I call down a nuke in front of my front door in time, or nuke one of the other player's bases to turn the tide?
2023.11.17
started a Google Doc for this. maybe move that here.
"game Starcraft Custom Melee vs AI 2023-2024"
***
to do:
https://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/base-defense
***
to do:
https://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/base-defense
